Curse

AvatarNZ · Sep 05, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

I see no reason why a characters heroes cannot have access to the PvE skills unlocked by that character.

A characters Heroes gains skill benefits from that character wearing their Title (Lightbringer, Edification, Stout-Hearted & Heart of the Norn), yet those same heroes cannot equip any PvE skills

.

There are many many many players who prefer to go at it alone with just their heroes, and just as many who prefer to play with just 2-3 friends, filling the gaps with Heroes.

All of these people are essentially being punished for their play style by not being able to equip their heroes with the same skills that a human player can wield.

I personally prefer to fill gaps in my party with heroes as they are predictable, never get grumpy and shout abuse, never lag, never drop connection and never ever quit!

I only ask that heroes are not descriminated against with respect to PvE skills.

enxa · Sep 05, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Nah.
Besides the fealing that i have that they would be overpowered and further disencourage teaming up where you would fill gaps in the party with players rather than vice versa, heroes cannot gain sunspear points or eotn points as players do, as far as i am informed. And i dont see how that could be managed. And i reckon it would be a pain to farm points for your heroes, all 20 of 'em individually, plus 20 per charracted you have. I dont even wanna think about that.

Onarik Amrak · Sep 05, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01

It won't happen.

Would be nice though.

Curse You · Sep 05, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Not going to happen. This is one of the few incentives to party with other people.

Isileth · Sep 05, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Its sad because some of us dont want to/cant team with others. I can only play in short periods most of the time and as such if I spend 10 mins finding a team and then sorting out builds and what not thats a big chunk of time gone. With heroes I can load up a lot quicker and get to play more, be nice if people didnt get punished for not being able to play long periods.

Div · Sep 05, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Anet wants us to play with other people

AvatarNZ · Sep 05, 2007, 08:01 AM // 08:01

I'm not disputing its a reason to PUG, but if you had actually read my first post instead of just the title you would have seen several reasons for choosing heroes over people.

Quite simply, many peoples play style is to play solo or in smaller groups then 8. Its their play style of choice, and theres a LOT of us out there who like to play like that, and we should NOT be discriminated against for our choice of play style!

Just because you don't agree with their play style doesn't mean yours is right and the hundreds of thousands of solo/duo/trio players should have to be punished with less of a complete game.

And to the argument of making heroes 'over-powered', I think you need a reality check. Equiping a hero with these skills gives much less of a guarantee of its successful use then if you had a human equip it. And no, heroes do not gain Lightbringer etc points, they inherit the same rank (and benefits) as you have when you select that title.

Effendi Westland · Sep 05, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

No, this game needs more incentives to team with other players.

Stop discriminating against full-player teams.

Every option that makes solo-play on par with full-player teams results in less players willing to team, I bring Nightfall as evidence.

Ferret · Sep 05, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

/signed

Yes, i think heroes should be able to use them, afterall, they gain the 'rank' benefit if you have it up, so why not the skills. Would make for more interesting teams.

To be honest, i generally avoid groups that are not guildies as they are more often than not the cause of wasted hours of game time.
Unwaking Waters the other night, helping a guildie with full player team...wiped 5 times due to stupidity and leavers/rage quiters.
Told Guildie to ditch the team and come with me, heroes and henchies and we completed first time.
Enough said as to why people use heroes.

Peace,

Ferret

haggus71 · Sep 05, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

/notsigned

easy enough to get through the game, even through HM, with just h/h. This would be turning the game into a solo RPG, and as has been said by Izzy and Gaile ad infinitum, that has never been their intention with the game. Get in a decent guild that shares your interests. There are tons of them out there. A lot post on these forums.

Abedeus · Sep 05, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

/notsigned
I h/h'd pretty much all missions on all my characters. I tried to pug, didn't pass any mission. But heroes would be a bit imba with pve-only skills. That's why they are heroes, not main characters - They can't use pve skills ;d

Darkobra · Sep 05, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Hero/Hench ftw. It won't matter to me if they never get PVE skills. I'd rather have a team of competent players than a team of idiots who can use PVE skills by my side.

For example, I was trying my earth build at Raisu Palace with real people. First time in many months. Telling my team to attack the monk, calling the monk, targetting the monk's spells and then spamming the screen to attack the monk, not one person attacked him. Instead, the idiots decided to attack a blinded, weakened warrior in a ward against melee who was being HEALED by said monk.

If I was to do the same with heroes and hench, no issues, no problems, no idiots, no real people. Ever again.

OH! And the mission with Shiro! We only had one monk. MY HERO monk. I basically soloed Shiro with my SV Hero monk, my earth wards and my hero monk. The rest of the team? Died. Repeatedly. Since one of the assassins had the utmost amazing idea of kicking a monk to be replaced with YET ANOTHER assassin. Both of which rushed in and died or got banished in the first 5 seconds.

odly · Sep 05, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

/singed.

/singed of the full hero teams as well.

I doubt Anet will ever give it to us, but that doesn't mean I cannot sign the thread of others who have seen the light.
I'll keep signing them all.

I play both with pug's, guildies or H+H depending on mood, objective, available time etc.

I don't understand why my team has to suffer (skill wise) for when I cannot commit fully to the game because of real live commitments.

For those who say nay : PM me your IGN and I'll play dungeons with you next time my kids aren't fully asleep yet.

Some of us cannot play with others all the time. So why punish us for that? I have a nice guild, and play with them when real live permits. When it doesn't I play alone. I'm not a team saboteur. If I know I might be called away from keyboard I don't group up, but rather I go solo. I then leave the game running so I can continue when I get back.

No bunch of missing skills is going to make me play with others when I don't want to/cannot. So you might as well give me access to those skills.

And yes some people simply prefer to play alone. If that's the way the enjoy the game the most, I don't want to force them to do otherwise.

SkyHiRider · Sep 05, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

/signed
why cant they use those skills? Encourage us to play with people? I like to play with my friend, who i have know for a long time, and it would be great if we could add those cool pve skills to our heroes and improve our combat experience. I disagree that its so overpowered, you can always have max 3 heroes if you got with henches + the max 3 pve skills per bar. Plus, the title grinding would be a lot more fun and rewarding if you knew you would get the skills for your heroes also.

SotiCoto · Sep 05, 2007, 02:32 PM // 14:32

/signed

It isn't going to happen, but I sign it anyway.
A-Net are too short-sighted to realise that some people just aren't socially inclined... and given the quality of the average PuG, I'm even more disinclined to bother with humans.

Which then leads to the matter of TNTF Paragons and the fact that Morgahn can't use it..... I mean so what if he was a Kournan and fought the Sunspears? He learnt his lesson!

Phoenix Tears · Sep 05, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

signed ...

heroes becoming overpowered is the silliest argument of all here, because heroes can#t simple become stronger then players ..

heroes have same skills, heroes have same max energy, heroes have same max health, heroes have same equipment, heroes have same runes ... as players, everything a heroes has, can have a player character too ... so telling heroes become overpowered, when they can use pve only skills too, is absolute nonsense.

Im absolutly for pve only skills for our Heroes and i'm too for Full Hero Parties ...

who the **** needs still henchmen, when you could have theoretically a full bunch of your heroes ...

Why do we need 20 heroes, when we can use in our parties only 3 of them oO.

Full Hero Parties would be imo the most awesome thing, Anet coul give to every non 24/7 GW Freak an all those players out there, which have daily maibe 1 hour or lesser for playing GW and don't want to waste time by searchig stupid players, which can't teamplay, can only swear/leave/leech and that are things, nobody wants ...

When A Net really wants, that we play more together with other players, then would exist no dumb henchmen, neither heroes ...
A Net said ever, their game would be one too for those kinds of players, which can't play long per day, but want do something succesful in their short time ..
These players can't do this in their 1hour they have, when they have to search theoretically for far more than 1 hour, before they are in a party, which has good chances to fulfill the mission/quest/dungeon ..whatever.

Full Hero teams are the oly fair solution for all, and thiose players, which want to play with others, will search further.
This system of slavering players to play with other players, only to receive a good chance for fulfilling something in the game sucks... it should be 100% the choice, of the player itself, if he wants to play together with any other player, or if you want to play total solo with only urself (Gothic 3 Style) or with a full team of your own heroes, which should be for fairness exactly same strong, as players, which means, that they should be able to use pve only-skills too.

There is NO reason in forcing players to play together with others in a game.
When u as player made the choice to play with a full hero team and still aren't able to fulfill a mission, then the player should not wine about the mission being to hard, or heroes being to dumb, but the player had the choice to play with full hero team then and not only with 3 together with 4 stupid henchmen, which u can#t give order, neither can you see their skills...

This Game needs no henchmen anymore, heroes are better upgraded "henchmen" and thats why i'll ever say, that Anet should make out of all their henchmen heroes ...

especially i want to see Devona, Eve, Mhenlo, Cynn and Aidan as heroes + a new mesmer reprensetative for Tyria, which is still missing until today.
These are out of all henchmen very special ones, because they were ever there in all three campains and had to do ever somethign with GW's Story, especially Mhenlo as "Messenger of Peace" somehow, who acts as the voice of the heroes which want to help somewhere.

Was in factions so, and was in Nightfall so.

Id also love far more, when all my Characters of my Account could become account based heroes, this would be the most awesome change(improvement) of the hero system beneth increasing max hero number in partys to 7.

id pay even increadible sums of balthazar points, when this should be then the only way to unlock ur account characters as account based heroes for pve, for say 10000 points per character of your account.
In this way, players get even a motivation to play pvp with their pve characters, combine this then together with a new kind of arena, where u gain for wins little sums of fame too and this would be perfect, because then the HoH would be finally not anymore the single way to receive fame points in GW, to get the emotes of Deer, Wolve, ect.
One thing that sucks really since the start of GW, that you can gain fame only by pvp (HoH)

HayesA · Sep 05, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

/signed

I'm with Ferret on this one; it ain't gonna happen. But would be really nice.

And I agree, I don't see why we can only have 3 heros at once. Someone like me who really doesn't like PUGs, and usually H/H it anyway. I would like to use my primary heros. That way I can completely control their movements, skill sets, weapons, etc etc. With henchment i cant, and with real players I cant either.

I'm all for guildies/allience mates/heros in my party only. I don't like that some missions cant be done with only heros/henchies.

Phoenix Tears · Sep 05, 2007, 04:42 PM // 16:42

heroes have to learn, how to grab items, like torches or explosives and so on ...

at the moment, are heroes too dumb for this, because the control system is simple just plain stupid thought out and with one word > cheap

You can say to your heroes only 3 things > go in attack mode, go in defense mode or dont fight ..wow, that i call awesome controling , oh and wow, I forgot, you can set markers to move them .. MAGNIFICANT, really unbelievable.

I miss really commands like:

Grabbing Items, so that they can carry stuff around too - very important for melee players and rangers, which lose through carrieng items their ability of using attack skills. in these moments you scream really out, WTF could not this stupid monk hero take it)

Missing commands like "Luring" or "Trapping" for ranger heroes.
or exact commands like "Protecting", so that heroes will defend each other, when possible, especially when softies get chased by strong melee enemies, what is very annoying, because:

1 first, it looks total silly, like kindergarten, where childs run around
2. very often softie heroes/henchs, especially monks forget their work, while they are fleeing and concentrate more on self surviving by running stupidly away

i miss commands like "Make your Eyes open", what wil result in running out of aoe spells simple and not that the player ha to waste time by moving direct the whole team to an other place or by moving each hero 1 by 1.

I miss commands, like "scouting" so that you can send your heroes for you clearing the map for you.
I miss commands like simple "Flee !!" which will result in an instant, that the whole party of heroes will run away and follow you, until you give the command "Situation Clear" , those 2 commands will exchange each other.
When u cativate flee, the command button changes to "situation clear", do you click the button now again, flee stops and button changes to "flee" again.
in this way, quick fleeing and stopping to flee is possible ...

heroes need commands like "be quiet", in this way the party could reduce a bit the aggro radius of the party for say 20%.

Heroes need tactics and formations, a sort of behavior, how they have to act in different situations, the gambling system of FF12 is for this perfect, because the player can give their companions tactics, so the heroes wil receive behaviors in certain situations.

simple behaviors, that can be programmed even by simple excel formulas theoretically.
Simple "When X occurs, then do Y" behaviors like for monks

"Is the Health of the whole party under 80%, then use Skill number x immediately"

other example coult be:

"Is the Health of the whole party under 70%, then use Skill number y after 2 seconds of the occurence"

However, all this shows me only, that theres a lot of potencial in heroes for improving the whole system

enxa · Sep 05, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

/signed

It isn't going to happen, but I sign it anyway.
A-Net are too short-sighted to realise that some people just aren't socially inclined...

Maybe you are forgetting one crucial thing about the game - its a mmorpg. No matter your play style, or your fealings about other people and their play style, the core of every mmorpg, including guild wars, is playing with real live players. And inspite of that GW still offers you plenty of options to avoid that, more than any other game (Sword of the New World came close, but not close enough).

SkyHiRider · Sep 05, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by enxa

Maybe you are forgetting one crucial thing about the game - its a mmorpg. No matter your play style, or your fealings about other people and their play style, the core of every mmorpg, including guild wars, is playing with real live players. And inspite of that GW still offers you plenty of options to avoid that, more than any other game (Sword of the New World came close, but not close enough).

As I said earlier, i like to play with my friend and my and his heroes, so dont speak about this being an mmorpg, this is the worst possible thing you can say. The great thing about when they added heroes was that you could enjoy a mission or a q with less people and still be able to do it fairly easy. If they would add the usage of pve skills to heroes, it would greatly improve the experience of pve play both if you play solo or with friends.